For those of you that had a chance to read my previous blog you will already understand the title of this current post. For those of you that haven't had the opportunity to read it, the summary is as follows.
After watching an episode of W5 about mental health and mental illness among students, which focused on The Jack Project and the work of its founder Eric Windeler, I shared my thoughts about the subject and the organization. When I was sending out an email to let people know about the post I also wanted to include Mr. Windeler as I believe it's important he is aware. Today I received an email from Mr. Windeler and I thought I'd share it, and my response, with all of you.
"On 2013-10-03, at 11:52 AM, Eric Windeler wrote:
Hi Josh,
This message came directly to me. At first I wasn't sure how to respond. And this past week I've been away in the UK where I attended iaymh2013.com a global summit on youth mental health. My youth lead, and founder of our national student summit (unleashthenoise.com) was the plenary speaker to open the entire conference.
Suffice to say, based on what I see below, either you don't fully understand our approach and mission, or perhaps we disagree on approach. Ours is based on best practices in youth mental health and supported by CAMH, the Mental Health Commission, CMHA, etc.
Our approach is far from negative. In fact I'd say it's perhaps the most positive, youth-engaging and inclusive of any. We're proud of it and how young people are rallying around our message and initiatives. I encourage you to review all our sites and our approach.
I wish you the very best in your continued efforts to contribute to the well being of youth in Canada."
--
Eric Windeler, Founder
The Jack Project
c/o MaRS Discovery District
101 College St.
Toronto, ON M5G 1L7
thejackproject.org unleashthenoise.com rideforjack.com @TheJackProject
This is my response sent earlier today.
Hi Eric,
When I initially saw your email I was actually excited and somewhat anxious to read it in hopes that you were going to engage me. Unfortunately to my disappointment I received this. I am very well versed in your mission statements and I have visited your site many times and quite thoroughly in fact.
This email you sent me sounds like something that would play as a recording on your company answering machine if I had called to report a concern. Using CAMH as a leaning pole doesn't do much for me and if you don't realize that going into schools with the message you are brandishing, "1 out of 4 youth will suffer from a mental health issue", is reckless and unfounded, I'm not sure there is a point in us even communicating. In my eyes and in the eyes of many, you are creating a scenario where eventually people will accept that 25% of our kids are suffering and where will that lead, I'm guessing to more prescription drugs, which CAMH will be right there to dispense and prescribe. I know you are a business man Eric and so I know you will understand when I say that what you are doing is very comparable to the bottled water scenario. Many years ago we were told that bottled water is the way to go and all other water pales in comparison and tap water is bad. Truth of the matter is that tap water and even toilet water is probably safer to drink than the average bottle of water for sale today, but look what happened, everybody drinks bottled water.
I am further disappointed that you didn't counter any of my points, nor did you attempt to challenge me in any real way on this subject. Maybe now that it's a personal email you can answer me directly. Since when did depression, anxiety and panic disorder become mental illnesses as opposed to emotional issues? As far as I know, Schizophrenia and Bi-Polar disorder are real mental illnesses and while there are many treatments, there is no cure for them, but depression, anxiety and panic disorder can all be cured. Lastly, since when did not wanting to go to work in the morning for many days in a row make you depressed? For the majority of our population wouldn't you say that they probably hate going to work almost every single day of their lives? I guess they are all mentally ill too, or maybe they were mentally ill to begin with because they had little money and yet they got married and had kids and now they are dealing with that poor decision. Maybe that is a message you and I should go into schools promoting? Healthy choices, emotional awareness, communication skills, etc. Doesn't that sound a lot more positive to you?
The last question I have for you, which I have asked you several times and you have yet to respond, how is it that you have been quoted saying that you and your family had no idea there was anything wrong with Jack and yet somehow after his death you were able to obtain a diagnosis of mental illness? That has to be one of the only times in history that a doctor could diagnose someone whose brain is no longer functioning. Let me repeat this next fact again, if you or anyone else you can think of, is living with someone for over 15 years that had a REAL mental illness, you would know! There is no doubt, no surprise and no ability to hide it. Seeing that you are talking about CAMH, if you wanted to have a look at some real mental illness sufferers, you could always go there. I promise you won't leave there with the feeling that someone could hide a mental illness.
I could go on and on, and if you'd ever like to sit and chat or some other option, I'd always be interested and willing.
I hope that you can see my point and maybe you can realize that your intent may be great, but your method could improve. You want to help people, not hurt them.
Josh
I would be very interested to hear thoughts from all of you out there, regardless if they are good or bad. As always I appreciate the support, I understand if you disagree and all I ask is that you have a look with an open mind. At the end of the day I have one goal and one goal only. Helping all children grow to be successful adults. Thank you all once again for your continued support and for taking the time.
After watching an episode of W5 about mental health and mental illness among students, which focused on The Jack Project and the work of its founder Eric Windeler, I shared my thoughts about the subject and the organization. When I was sending out an email to let people know about the post I also wanted to include Mr. Windeler as I believe it's important he is aware. Today I received an email from Mr. Windeler and I thought I'd share it, and my response, with all of you.
"On 2013-10-03, at 11:52 AM, Eric Windeler wrote:
Hi Josh,
This message came directly to me. At first I wasn't sure how to respond. And this past week I've been away in the UK where I attended iaymh2013.com a global summit on youth mental health. My youth lead, and founder of our national student summit (unleashthenoise.com) was the plenary speaker to open the entire conference.
Suffice to say, based on what I see below, either you don't fully understand our approach and mission, or perhaps we disagree on approach. Ours is based on best practices in youth mental health and supported by CAMH, the Mental Health Commission, CMHA, etc.
Our approach is far from negative. In fact I'd say it's perhaps the most positive, youth-engaging and inclusive of any. We're proud of it and how young people are rallying around our message and initiatives. I encourage you to review all our sites and our approach.
I wish you the very best in your continued efforts to contribute to the well being of youth in Canada."
--
Eric Windeler, Founder
The Jack Project
c/o MaRS Discovery District
101 College St.
Toronto, ON M5G 1L7
thejackproject.org unleashthenoise.com rideforjack.com @TheJackProject
This is my response sent earlier today.
Hi Eric,
When I initially saw your email I was actually excited and somewhat anxious to read it in hopes that you were going to engage me. Unfortunately to my disappointment I received this. I am very well versed in your mission statements and I have visited your site many times and quite thoroughly in fact.
This email you sent me sounds like something that would play as a recording on your company answering machine if I had called to report a concern. Using CAMH as a leaning pole doesn't do much for me and if you don't realize that going into schools with the message you are brandishing, "1 out of 4 youth will suffer from a mental health issue", is reckless and unfounded, I'm not sure there is a point in us even communicating. In my eyes and in the eyes of many, you are creating a scenario where eventually people will accept that 25% of our kids are suffering and where will that lead, I'm guessing to more prescription drugs, which CAMH will be right there to dispense and prescribe. I know you are a business man Eric and so I know you will understand when I say that what you are doing is very comparable to the bottled water scenario. Many years ago we were told that bottled water is the way to go and all other water pales in comparison and tap water is bad. Truth of the matter is that tap water and even toilet water is probably safer to drink than the average bottle of water for sale today, but look what happened, everybody drinks bottled water.
I am further disappointed that you didn't counter any of my points, nor did you attempt to challenge me in any real way on this subject. Maybe now that it's a personal email you can answer me directly. Since when did depression, anxiety and panic disorder become mental illnesses as opposed to emotional issues? As far as I know, Schizophrenia and Bi-Polar disorder are real mental illnesses and while there are many treatments, there is no cure for them, but depression, anxiety and panic disorder can all be cured. Lastly, since when did not wanting to go to work in the morning for many days in a row make you depressed? For the majority of our population wouldn't you say that they probably hate going to work almost every single day of their lives? I guess they are all mentally ill too, or maybe they were mentally ill to begin with because they had little money and yet they got married and had kids and now they are dealing with that poor decision. Maybe that is a message you and I should go into schools promoting? Healthy choices, emotional awareness, communication skills, etc. Doesn't that sound a lot more positive to you?
The last question I have for you, which I have asked you several times and you have yet to respond, how is it that you have been quoted saying that you and your family had no idea there was anything wrong with Jack and yet somehow after his death you were able to obtain a diagnosis of mental illness? That has to be one of the only times in history that a doctor could diagnose someone whose brain is no longer functioning. Let me repeat this next fact again, if you or anyone else you can think of, is living with someone for over 15 years that had a REAL mental illness, you would know! There is no doubt, no surprise and no ability to hide it. Seeing that you are talking about CAMH, if you wanted to have a look at some real mental illness sufferers, you could always go there. I promise you won't leave there with the feeling that someone could hide a mental illness.
I could go on and on, and if you'd ever like to sit and chat or some other option, I'd always be interested and willing.
I hope that you can see my point and maybe you can realize that your intent may be great, but your method could improve. You want to help people, not hurt them.
Josh
I would be very interested to hear thoughts from all of you out there, regardless if they are good or bad. As always I appreciate the support, I understand if you disagree and all I ask is that you have a look with an open mind. At the end of the day I have one goal and one goal only. Helping all children grow to be successful adults. Thank you all once again for your continued support and for taking the time.
Given the passive aggressive nature of your response to Eric, it should come as no surprise that he lacks the desire to engage.
ReplyDeleteThe aforementioned post which seems to have stemmed this debate garnered a most relevant response:
AnonymousOctober 4, 2013 at 6:22 AM
Offensiveness aside, there is a multitude of misinformation here.
Mental Illness IS in fact all of these things described above:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_disorder
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/mental-illness/DS01104
Furthermore; Neurologists are not trained nor do they diagnose these conditions. A number of professionals do so, primarily Psychiatrists and Psychologists. There are no laboratory tests (which a Neurologist would utilize in their line of work) which diagnose mental illness.
http://www.webmd.com/anxiety-panic/guide/mental-health-making-diagnosis
http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2013/03/02/how-a-mental-disorder-is-diagnosed-treated/
It is imperative that for those in positions whereby they can reach out and influence others (especially youth) that the relayed information is accurate, with peer reviewed studies and outcomes to substantiate their messaging.
--------------------------
Lastly, the fact that there is greater awareness (echoed by Canadian news agencies with regards to new initiates to address mental illness in teens in the education system, which was reported today) regarding Mental Illness and the stigmas associated with it, is is trying to be negated can be construed as nothing but a move in the right direction.
I first and foremost want to thank you for taking the time to read and comment. I truly appreciate it.
DeleteSeeing that you have taken the time to comment, I hope you don't mind that I wanted to respond. I'm sorry that you feel passive aggressiveness while I was trying to display passion and fighting for what I believe in, I'm not really sure how you came to this conclusion because you didn't articulate your comments. In order for criticism to be constructive it has to be descriptive, so I would ask how and where you found me to be passive aggressive.
As far as whether or not Eric responds, in the past he has and at the time I posted this blog, my email response was sent to him, so it's only been a couple of days and he is a busy man. Did I also mention we have met personally and he is not a stranger to people I know? Maybe these are some of the things I should have explained in more detail so as to not cause so much confusion?
I thank you for your Wikipedia definition, which is a site known for wrong information and if I'm not mistaken, you or I could submit information to Wikipedia and someone else could interpret it as fact. Next up was the mayo clinic and I'm sorry, but if you didn't already know this about me, I am against the use of prescription drugs unless it is absolutely necessary and pretty much a last resort. So the Mayo clinic, which probably gets a lot of funding from pharmaceutical companies, is not high up on my list of reliable sources. Lastly I will point out that at the end of the day any definition or writings you may find are just that, they are writings of another person. It doesn't make them automatically factual.
However what does rank highly for me would be the DSM Guides and most recently all the controversy surrounding the latest edidtion, DSM V. I have taken the time to find you a few links which I think may truly help you see where I am coming from. I will add that these articles feature the Head of the National Institute of Mental Health Tom Insel, well known psychotherapist and author Gary Greenberg and last but certainly not least, Jeffrey Liberman President of the American Psychiatric Association & Professor and Chairman of psychiatry at Columbia University.
These would be a few of the individuals and writings I prefer to rely on before I speak about this subject.
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cross-check/2013/05/04/psychiatry-in-crisis-mental-health-director-rejects-psychiatric-bible-and-replaces-with-nothing/
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=redefining-mental-illness
http://www.npr.org/2013/05/31/187534467/bad-diagnosis-for-new-psychiatry-bible
Does it not strike you as odd that across the globe there are so many different definitions for mental illness? Any Psychiatrist worth their weight in gold would tell you that in all honesty a lot of the time they are throwing darts at a dartboard when it comes to diagnosing mental illness. As long as individuals can fake a mental illness and other individuals can actually be mentally ill and pass a sanity test, we clearly have very little idea what we are talking about!
I do not write mis-information, it goes against everything I was taught. I say what I mean and I mean what I say. If it comes out of my mouth it is genuine and only from a positive place. Never forget, the good guys have to fight too.
Thanks again and I hope you will continue to read and share your thoughts.
You have way to much compounded anger to help anyone. Before you address our Youth Josh, you need to address your own issues.
ReplyDeleteI don't quite see how my passion got misinterpreted for anger, but I thank you for reading and taking a moment to comment.
DeleteDepression, anxiety and panic disorders are not brain malfunctions. They are emotional malfunctions. When I hear mental disability, I think chemical imbalance within our brains.
ReplyDeleteOur young are continually trying to decipher the world around them as they grow emotionally and socially. How they decipher is dependent on their understanding and the guidance and support their receive from adults - people who have already been there and done that. Add fearing for your safety while they are growing emotionally, and you can end up with an extremely anxious, depressed and panicked child who does not have the tools YET to deal with these situations as a result of their maturity level based on their age alone. Teaching kids with these emotional disabilities that they may be mentally unstable, I feel, will be doing them a great disservice.
My passion is advocating for kids in bullying situations. I always take offence when I read that a young person who was bullied and has taken their life must have had an underlying mental impairment. The possibility that any child would make the decision to take their life based on sheer despair as a result of not one adult being able to guide and support them in this kind of situation is almost never broached. They must obviously have had a mental issue - chemical imbalance.
I, myself, am highly anxious by nature - so much so that I suffer physical impairment dependent on the situation. I, under no circumstance, consider myself to have a mental impairment.
I had a child who was growing emotionally and socially and in a positive way. That child turned into a youth at risk, suffered depression, was extremely anxious for fear of being physically harmed and was quite often panicked. As a result he started questioning his self-worth and the reason he was here - with us. It didn't matter that his parents supported him. As a coping mechanism he started to self-harm and self-medicate until he realized that this was not the answer, but now he had an addiction. He didn't get the support of adults within the system where the abuse was taking place. He has since removed the victim tag and will tell you that he doesn't give a rats ass about the five boys that so relentlessly harassed him. His issue today is with those lame adults who didn't come to his aid. Yes - bullying is a relationship problem, but it continues because adults allow it to. Adults are the reason they become depressed, anxious and panicked.
He was 14 when it started. He will be 23 in January of 2014. He is completing his college degree, has been in a stable relationship for quite some time, is working to support himself and is that smiley, goofy, whimsical person he was when he was 14 years old. My son was not mentally impaired - he was emotionally exhausted.
hello. if students were forced to live in a sadistic cultural environment where they were being attacked on a daily basis, bullied, lied to, lied about, etc., subjected to harassment, and not to mention, being told they have to achieve something that is impossible, then, gee. let's see, they get "depressed", and then, we need a drum roll to introduce the jack project or some other group of do gooders, let's prescribe some medications for them, since they must be mentally impaired, the depression is a natural response to an impossible situation, the only solution being to simply quit and walk away. What I really liked about the jack project is that they have no phone or physical address on the website, but they tell you, if you are considering suicide not to leave a message there, it is only for donations, but to go to the emergency room in a hospital. If anyone is stupid enough to do that, they will find themselves locked up in a ward on thorazine. Or, better, is to call 911, now there's a really good idea. Neither is a helpful suggestion for someone contemplating suicide. For those medication pushers out there being paid kickbacks for prescribing meds that don't address the problem in the first place, good luck in your next life. Nobody cares if anyone kills themselves or not, as long as they can make some money on them while they are suffering. This is a huge problem, and "the authorities" on the subject are much the problem. If you could actually get help by going to CMHA, we wouldn't be having these problems. It more or less proves my point.
Delete